In a stunning on-air confrontation, Fox News anchor Martha MacCallum systematically dismantled the Democrats’ latest talking points after Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO) attempted to undermine the Trump Department of Justice’s bold operation that captured Venezuelan narco-tyrant Nicolás Maduro.
The interview, aired on “The Story with Martha MacCallum,” came hot on the heels of Trump’s DOJ executing a lightning-fast extraction operation to haul Maduro out of his Venezuelan lair and bring him to justice in the U.S.
MacCallum began by laying out the facts. The Maduro operation lasted less than two and a half hours, an extraction, not an occupation.
She compared it to historic U.S. actions against Noriega and Gaddafi, emphasizing a simple truth Democrats refuse to accept: removing the head of a criminal enterprise is the first step to stopping the poison.
Crow’s response? Shrugs and deflection.
“We don’t know that,” he insisted, prompting MacCallum’s immediate rebuttal: We’ve never known it.
The difference, she noted, is whether America finally acts or continues the empty rhetoric Democrats have delivered since 1989.
As Crow pivoted to his favorite talking point, MacCallum delivered the knockout blow.
Roughly 100,000 Americans die every year from drug overdoses. Venezuela, she explained, has become a narco-state and a forward operating base for hostile actors.
Crow tried to wave it away, claiming fentanyl and meth “almost none” come from Venezuela. MacCallum didn’t miss a beat.
“So you’re okay with massive amounts of cocaine trafficking into the United States from Venezuela?”
Crow backtracked again, revealing the hollowness of his position. No plan. No solution. Just paralysis.
Then came the moment that ended the debate.
MacCallum reminded Crow that Maduro wasn’t just “accused,” he was indicted by the Department of Justice. If America refuses to enforce its own indictments against a foreign drug kingpin, what message does that send?
Martha MacCallum:
This operation was less than two and a half hours long. It’s much more similar to what we did with Noriega in Panama, or even what President Obama did with Gadhafi in Libya. This is an extraction operation. He’s the head of the snake, and the snake is still there to a certain extent. But isn’t it better to remove the head, at least, to start the process?Jason Crow:
We don’t know that. That’s the point.Martha MacCallum:
We’ve never known it.Martha MacCallum:
But the question is whether or not you get around to a point where you actually take some action, or do you just talk about it since 1989, as we’ve just heard many prominent Democrats do?Jason Crow:
The Maduro regime, as it was constructed, exists almost in its entirety as we sit here today in Venezuela.Martha MacCallum:
So they should have taken out the whole thing.Jason Crow:
No, I’m not saying that at all.Martha MacCallum:
So they should take out no one.Jason Crow:
What I’m saying is I don’t believe it’s in our immediate interest for Americans to want us to be engaged in another nation-building quagmire like we have done for 20 years.Martha MacCallum:
Well, let me ask you this. You have about 100,000 Americans dying of drug overdoses. Most of those drugs are coming from Venezuela and other places—Colombia, certainly, fentanyl as well.Jason Crow:
That’s actually not true.Martha MacCallum:
It’s not true that 100,000 Americans a year?Jason Crow:
The majority of deaths by drugs in America are the result of meth and fentanyl. Almost none of that comes from Venezuela.Martha MacCallum:
So you’re okay with massive amounts of cocaine traffic coming into the United States from Venezuela?Jason Crow:
No, I’m not saying that either. What I’m saying is, if we want a real drug strategy—if we want to stop fentanyl and meth, which is largely what’s killing our children and devastating our communities—then we need a real drug strategy to do that. But actually going and deposing a foreign leader and capturing them, and now saying we’re going to run the country, as Donald Trump just said on Saturday—Martha MacCallum:
He was indicted by the U.S. Justice Department. So we should just not follow through on action and indictments of our own Justice Department to bring him to justice in the United States? Otherwise, what’s the point of these sorts of indictments?Jason Crow:
That is not at all what I’m saying. There are thousands of people who are indicted. But just because somebody is indicted, does that mean that we go and depose a leader and actually say we’re going to run a country? Donald Trump on Saturday said very specifically that the United States is going to run Venezuela, that we’re going to be in control of it, and we’re going to put our oil companies in place.Martha MacCallum:
We didn’t leave anyone there. I think that interpretation—it sounds to me like the interpretation is to try to help the oil industry get up and running again to prevent the drug operation from flowing across. We’ve seen the early steps of that operation. Also, you’ve got Iran, China, Cuba—a lot of bad actors—using it as a forward operating base against the United States.Jason Crow:
Absolutely, which is part of the problem, because you just said we left nobody on the ground. So the Cubans are still there.Martha MacCallum:
You said you don’t want anyone on the ground. The mistake was that we didn’t take out all of the other heads of operation, but you didn’t want us to take out Maduro in the first place. So you’re saying that there’s no threat—there’s no threat from this operation.Jason Crow:
No, Martha, that’s a straw man. I’m not saying that. What I’m saying is just because there’s a problem does not mean that the solution should be that we go in militarily—Martha MacCallum:
What is the solution?Jason Crow:
—that we depose the president, and then we now own that problem, and we have to occupy and address it. There is no end game here.Martha MacCallum:
Well, he was given many opportunities to go into exile, all of which he refused. So eventually, you’ve got to follow through, or your word is worth nothing. If you indict this drug kingpin leader and you never do anything about it—which is what we saw in all the prior administrations—eventually, they’re laughing at you.
WATCH:
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